Dating, Sex, & Relationships

I live in Shanghai and I've been going out with a girl from Heilongjiang here for about 5 months now. After only 3 weeks of being together she told me that she wanted to get married in the next year or two and I said I want to get married one day too, but let's take it slow and see what happens. I am 24 and British, she is 27.

We've mostly been OK. We've had some really good times with each other, we say we love each other, and we do really look after each other. But as more time goes by in this relationship, I start to feel a bit scared.

There have been some bad bits, like for example I sometimes like to play video games to relax. I don't relax a lot, I'm not the slightest bit lazy, I actually do a lot of productive stuff in my spare time and I don't normally play video games and if I do I don't play them for long. But video games has been the source of 2 or 3 fairly big arguments, she can't accept that I play them to relax and insists that I read a book or learn something, I tell her that I don't want to do that and that it's my life I can do what I want to do. The argument normally ends with me compromising by saying I will only play after I've done everything that I need to do, like shopping, emailing people etc. And I think that's fair enough. We only see each other once a week, and I never play video games when I'm with her, unless she's in the shower (she takes ages in the shower), I only play video games when I don't have anything better to do.

She says only children play video games and that it's a waste of time, she doesn't seem to have a problem with her going on kaixin wang for a long time when we're together, nor does she have a problem with watching TV or watching movies which I think are pretty much the same as playing video games.

That's the biggest problem we've had, and everytime we have an argument (which is maybe once or twice a month now) I feel pretty down for a whole week after and start to feel pretty terrified about what I'm about to get myself into.

She's dead set on marriage, but she's been respectful and doesn't talk about it, she just mentioned it a few times at first and knows where we stand. I said we should try living together first and we shall move in with each other in December. But I think she's trying to leave little hints to remind me, like by bringing loads of stuff into my apartment and leaving it here (like clothes and other things that belong to her), or talking about the future. She wants to be able to run her own business one day and we're discussing how we can go about doing that.

I think the thing that scares the most out of me is that I've agreed to go and meet her parents during the October holiday. We've booked the flights and we'll be in her hometown for a week. I don't know what her parents are like and I'm a bit scared about meeting them, I'm also a bit nervous about spending a whole week with her, the most time we've ever spent together is 2 days.

Most of the time, I'm really happy with her and I can really see things working out well. She's not crazy like a lot of Chinese girls, she's actually quite normal, but I wouldn't say she's very reasonable nor understanding (because of the video game thing and a few other little similar things). We've had one or two other fights, one was about a job I was offered with a company she didn't like, I thought she was basically telling me I couldn't work for that company but I was a bit wrong instead she was just simply telling me why she didn't like that company and I didn't want to hear it. Another thing was about me going to do an MBA here, I said I was going to look into it over the new few months and see if it would be worthwhile doing, but she insisted that it's something I have to do. I really don't like that kind of attitude. When I was looking for jobs a while ago she kept on saying in Chinese 'I want to let you do a sales job', I don't really want to do a sales job! And what's with the 'I want to let you..' thing?!

It's really difficult to be certain about how I really feel. Like I said, most of the time things are really great. But if we have an argument, I'm left feeling like crap for a whole week afterwards and I start to feel really, really scared. So scared that the thought of just packing my bags and leaving in the middle of the night keeps running through my mind.

Also, I still feel really young. Perhaps I'm not that mature or experienced enough yet, I love having a companion and someone to spend my time with, but the thought of getting married scares the living daylights out of me.

I do love her, I think. It's kinda hard to define what love is, but I care a lot about her and I really want to make her happy, but her efforts to control my life and her refusal to change her ways whilst I have to change my ways makes me really angry and scared. If she could be more understanding, she'd be pretty much perfect. She's an attractive girl, she has ambitions, she's not crazy, she has a clever way of thinking and with her I think I could become someone really successful. But, I feel like I'm about to become a proper adult all of a sudden, and I will no longer be free to go off and do whatever I want to do.

My attitude to life maybe has something to do with the way I'm feeling as well. Like, I have a habit of moving from one place to another, getting bored in one place then going to another place, I never make many friends because I'm not a very sociable person and I get depressed very easily because I'm not a sociable person. If I'm entirely honest I don't like China very much, but I stay here because I see fantastic opportunities for myself. Every so often I get the urge to move to Japan, but this urge passes after a few months. Sometimes I think if I move to Japan, it's just me doing what I always do, just go from place to place.

Sorry for the random writing style, just trying to write my thoughts as they come to me. I'd really appreciate some advice as I'm quite concerned now. And if it helps, a few more details, I'm an English teacher and I speak very good Chinese, she doesn't speak any English. Her goals in life are to be successful, but mine are to be free.

Thank you for your question and especially the honesty with which you wrote it.

I could easily write several pages of thoughts in response to the issues that you raised but I’ll try to simplify my answer by focusing on what I think are the two major factors at play and then illustrating them with a very personal account.

First, you may very well not be ready for marriage, i.e., a long-term commitment to just one woman, at this point in your life. This concern is highlighted in your last and poignant sentence “Her goals in life are to be successful, but mine are to be free.” Second, even if you were ready for marriage, this girl (as you describe her) may not be the right one for you.

Certainly, Chinese girls do not have a monopoly on attempting to micromanage the lives of their husbands but I believe that the strong and pervasive influence of Confucian tradition—with its rather rigid prescriptions in regard to roles and obligations—does result in a higher percentage of women who maintain unshakable views regarding what constitutes “good” versus “bad” behavior. Men who are “healthy” and “good” will act in certain ways; those who don’t are “unhealthy” and “bad.”

My current wife is a Filipina: probably the kindest and most emotionally generous human being I have ever known. That is not to say that, at times, she doesn’t portend to know more than I do about what is best for me: I imagine most wives (of all nationalities) assume this position from time to time. The critical difference between her and the Chinese women I have worked with or have read about is that Sonia seems to instinctively know when to cease and desist and it’s a difference that allows me to feel endearingly close to her even when we are having a disagreement.

Without knowing very much about you or your girlfriend, it seems to me that if you are already having fantasies about running out on the relationship, that’s not a good sign and it’s a warning that should be heeded very seriously.

Feel free to follow up if you care to.

Hi Gregg,

Thank you very much for your reply.

I agree that my thoughts are a very big warning sign and I should take these very seriously.

But I am extremely confused. On the one hand, if I run away from her I'm just going to be living my life like a vagabond like I always do. I have a bad habit of getting bored of things, of places and of jobs and I end up running away to the next place or the next job. In the past, I've had a few girlfriends, in the past year I've had 5 girlfriends. The first 4 didn't work and I had a feeling of terror when I realised it wasn't going to work, the first girlfriend I sat her down and told her we need to split up and that was fine. I had the same feeling with the next 3 girlfriends, but fortunately for me, before I had to have the dreaded conversation with them, they just stopped answering my phone calls, I guess they felt it too.

My first serious girlfriend when I was 19 completely messed me up. She almost drove me to suicide, she argued constantly and took away so much of my freedom, I couldn't do the things I wanted anymore, I couldn't speak to my friends or my family, I even tried to split up with her but she wouldn't even let me do that. She had such a terrifying control over my life. After I finally broke up with her, that was the happiest feeling I have ever had. When I'm with my current girlfriend, sometimes I have the same sorts of feelings, but I think it's because I'm scared she's going to be like my first girlfriend. My current girlfriend is nothing like the the first girlfriend I had, but she's the person who's been closest to me since my first girlfriend. When she nags me, I remember my first girlfriend and I get extremely defensive and protective and that's what normally causes the arguments.

Whilst I don't think I'm entirely to blame, I think the arguments are largely my fault. The things we argue about, we normally tend to agree with, it's just the way she says things that really puts me on edge. I've realised this recently and I've spoken to my girlfriend about it. For example playing video games, she doesn't seem to like me playing video games at all and would be a lot happier if I didn't play them at all, but she can deal with me playing them every so often. In fact, I don't like playing them very often, I enjoy filling my time with other things. I feel more fulfilled when I'm doing other things. It's just that she thinks I play them very often and if she phones me when I'm playing them and asks me what I'm doing and I say I'm playing video games, she'll just mumble something that puts me on edge. A while ago I thought she was trying to tell me not to take a certain job, but I was wrong, she was just explaining to me why she didn't like that company, but she doesn't mind me doing that job, in fact I think she would be happier if I do that job because it looks better on my CV and allows me to earn more money. It's just that I take what she says the wrong way and I then get extremely defensive and protective because I automatically think of my first girlfriend. Perhaps now I've realised this and explained it to her we won't have so many arguments.

I had a conversation with her the other day about this. I told her that I was scared of going to see her parents because are future is uncertain. I explained that I feel our future is uncertain because we need to live together first to see if we are happy living together and also I need to take her back to England for a holiday to see if she likes England. She wasn't very happy about this, and said that I need to be certain we're going to get married if she agrees to live with me. I sort of lied, after a teary conversation with her in which I explained I was scared, I said I wasn't expecting to settle down so soon, I said I didn't feel so comfortable being so close to someone because of the way my first girlfriend treated me and I wanted to live together with her first to make sure things were certain, she said I still need to be certain. I said if she promises me she will do her best to make me happy, if she lets me relax when I need to relax, if she suggest I do things rather than nags then I can be certain, and that in all honesty is true. I love her, I care deeply about her and I really want to make her happy. Before I was with her, I used to wake up most mornings feeling lonely and depressed, now I never feel depressed, although I do sometimes feel confused. I know that with her, if she can control these things, then we have a fantastic future together.

The only question is, can she control these things? If she can't, then I'm going to try not listening to her when she nags. I get the feeling that she nags because she just wants to say things, not because she actually means what she's saying. So long as I'm not lazy and don't waste my time and manage to make progress in more productive things (all of which I am happy to do) then I know she will be happy. And if she nags, I will just pretend I'm listening and not take on board what she's saying, or wait until she's calmer and tell her what I'll do, which won't be exactly what she wants to me to do, but will be enough.

If that doesn't work then I guess that's it for us. I told her that if she can promise me she will always try to make me happy and if she can try to watch what she says, then I honestly would be extremely happy to get married with her. There are many great things about her which I think are hard to find in girls and I think she'd make a great wife and we'd be very happy together. She just needs to understand that nagging scares the life out of me and she needs to give me a bit more time before we can get married. We agreed that we will wait 2 years before we get married, which is enough time for me.

It would be very easy for me to run away, it would be the easiest thing in the world to do. I could book a plane ticket, pack my bags and probably leave tomorrow if I really wanted to, and this problem would be far, far away from me and I honestly would never have to worry about it ever again. But there is a lot stopping me from doing that, I guess because I love her and I want to be happy with her.

I also think that settling down now as opposed to later would be really good for me. On my own I'm perhaps too free, I don't have much structure in my life and I don't have the motivation to do things if I'm on my own, I just turn into a lazy bum and don't do anything productive. With her, I suddenly want to do so much with my life, and I do feel happier and no longer lonely. I'm just scared because I don't know what the future is going to be like.

P.S. Dr Gregg, I really thank you for setting up this website. There are many problems foreigners face living in China and it's not always so easy dealing with these or finding people to talk to. I think it's an extremely generous thing that you've done to dedicate so much of your time to solving people's problems, and I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to offload my thoughts onto here.

Dr. Greg, your thoughts about Filipinas being good wives is very true. My best friend married one over 20 years ago and the love boat is still sailing. My friend is a basically a drunk, he can hardly keep a job and she still won't get rid of him. Any guy with relationship problems needs to spend a month on the beach in Cebu.

In addition, Filipino men are by far the friendliest and nicest guys I have ever worked with, they make great friends and inlaws. If you know any single Filipinas call me collect!

Hi,

I just saw this topic and i thought i would put my two cents in not as an expert on relationships or dating Chinese women.
We are about the same age ( I'm 25 on Saturday wooo!) so I can understand your uncertainty in regards to marriage in general at our age.

I think Greg is right about two things:

1.Chinese women do not hold a monopoly in regards to being dominant and controlling in regards to their hubbies behaviour, i have only dated one Chinese girl and that was in my home country Australia. She was a international student and believe it or not a traditional girl (virgin) from Shanghai, she acted in the same way that most of my other girlfriends and complaining about games and wasting time etc...

2.From reading your post i just get the strong feeling that you do not want to get married at all.
I don't think getting married from a sense of obligation is in any way a good idea I doubt that you will have a good marriage in the future.

I had a very serious relationship with my ex-girlfriend that lasted for 4 years ( from the age of 18-22) we lived together for most of that time and we talked about getting married but decided that we were much too young.

Well when i say that we decided to wait I mean that is what I told her was my feelings and that's what she pretended to accept. Before our 4th anniversary i was having some small doubts about our relationship but i shrugged them of as simply feeling a little bored and childish until the night of our 4th anniversary when to my surprise in front of a group of our friends at dinner she proceeded to get down on one knee and ask me to marry her!!

Well I suppose she assumed that she thought that if she asked in front of all of our friends that i would have to say yes and accept (or maybe it was a genuine romantic idea I don't know) you can imagine her embarrassment and anger when the first thing that popped out of my mouth was a firm no.

To cut a long story short that relationship didn't have a lot of time left to go after that, I moved in with my brother in a different city and things remained very frosty for about a year.

Whats my point? Well basically the longer you choose to continue with this relationship without discussing it with your girlfriend the greater the damage to her and your relationship, the truth hurts but who know maybe she can handle it. Its hard but the fallout from just doing nothing could be much worse.

Just my opinion as a person nothing more

Dear Wozhuzaizhongguo,

If you feel you have your own relationship issues to work through, then maybe that's something you should give some thought to doing. If you are located in a major city, like Beijing or Shanghai, there are Western psychologists there who might be able to help.

It's been about six years since that first traumatic relationship started. You don't mention how long it lasted but if you are still feeling "gun shy" as a result of it, you may need some professional help to sort through it all.

Sometimes a good relationship can be therapeutic. That is, occasionally, the right pairing can produce a couple of people who are healthier together than the sum of each of their separate parts. Unfortunately, that kind of situation is rare. What is far more common is that we seek out people who are more or less at the same level of mental health as ourselves and, in the presence of "unfinished business," we also tend to unconsciously choose those who allow us to repeat the conflicts of the past (with the hope of finally being able to find some resolution). Psychoanalysts refer to this phenomenon as a repetition compulsion. By definition, recreating similar dynamics from the past with others in the here-and-now with the hope of finally resolving them never works.

My point is if you believe you have definite "relationship problems," you should work them through before you become overly committed to this particular girl because it is very likely that your initial, unconscious attraction to her was dictated (or controlled) by your conflicts. That is, those who fear control and abandonment tend to be attracted to partners who are controlling and often emotionally unavailable. On one hand, the unconscious hope is that, this time around, things will be different. On the other hand, one's worst fears are already built into the relationship--so there is nothing to lose (in a perverse sort of way). That is, if I expect to always be abandoned and I unconsciously choose women who are either emotionally unavailable or have a history of infidelity, in a manner of speaking, there are no surprises and, when it all falls apart, I have no real need to look at or change anything about myself because "that woman did me wrong." Of course, I am conveniently "forgetting" that I was the one who chose her to begin with and that my choice in her says as much about me as it does about her.

Setting aside whatever problems with relationships you may or may not have, playing video games as a leisure activity is not exactly a diagnosable mental or emotional disorder (smile). If you were playing video games instead of going to work or you were blowing off important events because you needed to complete the next level of the game, yes, then that would be a problem--but that doesn't apply to you. The only problem you seem to be having with video games is that your current girlfriend doesn't approve of them.

As for nagging, I don't know of anyone who enjoys being at the receiving end of it. Can she stop? I have no idea. If she believes she is correct in the position that she is taking with you, then it is unlikely that she will stop because she will justify it as being for your "own good."

If you think you would be interested in receiving some counseling to help you work through these fears and uncertainties, send me an e-mail at drgreg@mavrides.net with your location and I will try to find you a good referral.

Kind regards,

Greg

Joe,

Of course I am terribly biased on this subject, but I do agree with you 110 percent about the overall friendliness of Filipinos and especially the saint-like devotion of Filipinas to their husbands.

I know of a foreigner married to a Filipina in China who suffers from a fixed delusional disorder (he believes people are trying to poison him. He receives disability insurance and is unemployed). Quite remarkably, his wife is completely devoted to him even though, as you can easily imagine, it is not easy being married to someone who refuses to use the bathroom because he believes that an international assassin entered his apartment one day while they were out and sprayed cyanide on the bathroom walls. Nevertheless, she sticks to him like glue and does everything she can to protect him from himself.

I recently asked my wife what her impression was regarding the percentage of Filipino women who are as devoted to their husbands as she and this other woman are. After giving the question some thought, she offered 70 percent as a rough approximation. Although this is certainly not a scientific estimate on her part, I wouldn't be surprised if she was in the general ballpark.

If I had a son who was old enough to marry, I would actually encourage him to consider a Filipina. Aside from making extremely devoted wives, most Filipinas, even of this generation, have outstanding domestic skills that, in the West, vanished long ago with my mother's generation.

I was very interested to read your posts. I personally always feel that it takes two to destroy a relationship - and that can come from unrealistic expectations from one partner as well as 'disappointing' behaviour from the other.

No man or woman is perfect. That is why real 'love' is accepting the bad side of the relationship as well as the good. You should love your parter despite flaws - you have them too, I'm sure.

As for your first relationship, it seems to me that perhaps you are forgetting to look at how you behaved too. Maybe your ex was difficult, but maybe you weren't always the perfect partner either. Like I said, it always takes two.

And was it your ex's first relationship? If not, maybe that added to the tension - you were just discovering what a relationship could be like, and her expectations were different. I'm not denying that it has obviously had an impact on you - but maybe try to calm down when you're arguing with your current girlfriend and realise that relationships are compromise rather than getting so defensive - and theres no point using the past to form your future.

Things get twisted in people's heads, especially after such a long time, and I wonder if you remember it as clearly as you think. Did she really stop you speaking to your friends and family or is that just how you feel now? Surely at 19 you must have both been fairly sociable - and I don't think someone can force you to be with them regardless of how difficult the situation is - was she holding a gun to your head?

I'm not trying to upset you or disbelieve you, I just feel that you need to stop dwelling on the past and focus on what you want with this current girlfriend.

No, you don't have to change, you don't fall in love with someone to make them change, or to have them change you - but by the same token, if you respect and love someone, you should take their point of view into account and compromise. It all depends whether or not you want the relationship to work.

Just be honest with the girl. And with yourself too. Life doesn't have to be a drama if you can see the real you.

Hi,

I have the same feeling about my Chinese girlfriend. They concentrate more on their own feelings rather than us.

I posted about a year ago in a thread called "mixed feelings about my Chinese girlfriend". I was really confused back then, and there were some big fights during that time. But after a while the fights stopped, she adjusted and accepted me and we started to have a really good relationship.

In the last year we've been through quite a lot together. I changed jobs. Her mum got throat cancer, but recovered and we've been making plans for the future. I've even got her a visa to visit the UK for a few weeks next month. It's getting really serious.

When I last posted, I was pretty concerned about the prospect of marriage, and I guess I still am now. I just feel too young and to be honest I just want to be single and continue to have lots of different, casual relationships. That's really the only reason why. The girlfriend I have now is, to be honest really great, if I were to marry a girl it would probably be this one. She has done a lot for me and shows that she cares. She is a great match for me in general, and really motivates me in life. I've achieved a lot since I've been with her. She's not perfect, she has her faults, but generally they don't bother me. The only thing that bothers me is that I feel too young to get married.

I seem to go through phases. Sometimes I really want to get married to her, and feel like proposing to her. All the time I can imagine that if I did marry her, we'd be happy together. But then I get these other phases, like now, where I just feel like I'm in too deep. This comes and goes. I've tried to be honest with her, but it's not possible to expect her to be reasonable about this topic. Whenever I want to explain to her my feelings about marriage, she will not let me go into detail, she just wants a straight answer "say you'll marry me next year or we split up". She's told me that if she doesn't get married next year then her mum will be really upset, and that's not a good thing because her mum has just had cancer and has lost the ability to talk so is depressed enough already. So I cave in and say I'll marry her next year.

There have been 3 occasions like this. And when it happens I feel a sense of relief, I feel like I am about to leave the relationship, but when it comes to actually splitting up with her, I think long and hard about it, and I just can't do it. I can never do it. There are several reasons. One, I care about her a lot, and I know that her quality of life has improved by being with me and her family are very happy that she's with me, if I left her I know that her quality of life would not be the same, her family would be really disappointed and I know she'd rush into another relationship with anyone and I honestly feel that they wouldn't treat her as nicely as I do. Two, this is kinda selfish I know but, the thought of being single is a little bit worrying. I don't have many friends here in Shanghai and I get depressed very easily. Perhaps it would be an opportunity for me to move in with some other people, make some new friends and start dating again, but I'm actually not very good at any of that. And as much as I crave the single life style, I know that I was never happy when I was single, and the fun parts of flirting and dating only ever came about 5% of the time, the other 95% I would just be longing for a long-term partner. I would get really depressed. Thirdly, just the process of breaking up scares me. Although she's implied that she would be quite happy to split up if I couldn't get married to her soon, I have heard stories of Chinese girls when they split up and that scares me. I don't know if she would be like that but I do know she would be really upset. I'd be really upset too.

Another thing that really bugs me is the timing. I feel that splitting up is going to be extremely difficult now. She's about to visit the UK, her first time to a foreign country, she doesn't seem too excited, but I'm sure it would be a bit of a disappointment. Also, she is currently in a job she hates, people bully her there and is about to leave. I can't stand the thought of her going through a break up when she is still in that job, but if she leaves then she will be dependant on me, which makes things quite difficult. I am willing to support her until she gets back on her feet, but I know it will scare her being in a situation like that.

I just don't know what to do. If I stay I know I will keep on going through these phases, if I marry her I will most likely reach a stage where I will start to not be faithful, but if I split up with her there are going to be so many problems. It would be easy for me to run away from the problems, essentially they would all be her problems, but I could never leave her to cope with them on her own because I care too much about her.

Also, I'm not sure if I can make her happy if she marries me and I have tried to point this out to her. She wants it all, a house, a car and kids and to start her own business and be generally wealthy. And she wants it all now. I've told I can provide her with some of those things, but not all and most certainly not for a while.

I know I should have had a serious discussion with her about my thoughts a long time ago. But I've tried, and she made it impossible. The reasons I explained above just made it too difficult for me to actually break up with her.