Dating, Sex, & Relationships

Hi Dr Greg,

I have read your thread "A Further Question on Dating Etiquette" with interest. However I suspect that my situation is quite different from most of your readers.

I was born and raised in England, I have never visited China and I have had limited contact with those who have been born-and-bread in China, although I am of Hong Kong Chinese parentage.

I am currently studying as a mature postgraduate university student in the UK. (I'm 35 but I am often mistaken to be approx 26-28.) A few Chinese students have approached me who appear to be 'over friendly' towards me from my 'Westernised' dating/friendship viewpoint.

For example, one 25 year old "Miss A" bought me a birthday present, and has brought up questions such as about whether I am married, have been married, who my parents are, all within 1 week of meeting me.

I met "Miss B" 21 year old student, about a month ago. "Miss B" sends me multiple text messages daily and will make an effort to find and chat at least once a day. As she is quite fun, I have invited her to join me and my friends at various events, lunches and she always seems keen to accept.

Several (indiscreet) mutual friends have began to ask us questions about our relationship status but she never replies either way when we're asked together. Twice I have taken her out for dinner (just the two of us) and I am now developing quite a strong attraction to her.

My concern is that I don't know where I stand on the friendship/dating scale and more importantly how to proceed. I feel that I am entering a cultural minefield as I don't know whether either situation can be interpreted in my 'Westernised Dating' experiences. Additionally, due to my Chinese appearance, I am doubly concerned that others would 'expect' me to know the norms.

The last thing I want to do is to unintentionally mislead someone due to my lack of cultural understanding.

For "Miss A", I want to be sure that I haven't misinterpreted the situation before I explain that I am not interested, as it could appear to be quite arrogant.

For "Miss B", my Hong Kong/Malaysian/Singaporean Chinese friends have jointly and severally warned me to be very careful not to rush things. I am repeatedly told "dating is very different in China" and I should take things much more slowly than I would for a "Western" relationship.

Any insights you might have would be appreciated. I've found that researching this topic is infuriating as Google unhelpfully responds with lots of 'Asian Bride' type websites.

Regards,

Cheung

I think it is safe to assume that Chinese girls studying abroad would be far more bound by their native cultural norms than the host country's norms in regard to dating, sex, and relationships. I think the Guide's chapter on Dating Etiquette and Sex would apply as much to them as it does to Chinese girls in China.

Based on the questions she has asked you, I would say that Miss A is clearly vetting you as a potential husband. I also think it is unlikely that Miss B would have accepted two different invitations to have dinner with you outside of a group setting if she, too, were not interested in you as more than just a friend.

If you are having trouble reading Miss B's intentions towards you, it is reasonable for you to initiate a discussion about how she feels: You can start by saying something very low-key about how you like her as more than just a friend and then ask how she feels. I don't think she would consider that to be too forward, not after two dates in addition to all the other time you two have spent together.

Dr. Greg wrote:I think it is safe to assume that Chinese girls studying abroad would be far more bound by their native cultural norms than the host country's norms in regard to dating, sex, and relationships.

I was thinking the same. However, I've read (and heard) that the major Cities such as Shanghai and Beijing are very Westernised. I know that 'Miss A' is pure Shanghainese and 'Miss B', (although from Henan), attended University in Shanghai, so I wasn't sure how 'Westernised' they are in their attitudes.

Dr. Greg wrote:I think the Guide's chapter on Dating Etiquette and Sex would apply as much to them as it does to Chinese girls in China.

Thanks for the link. I had trouble finding that earlier. I am *very surprised* about the third date equating to marriage, the focus on virginity, and the "general absence of casual dating in China".

I didn't think the differences from the West would be that wide.

Dr. Greg wrote:Based on the questions she has asked you, I would say that Miss A is clearly vetting you as a potential husband.

I did stongly suspect that would be the case. However I heard that questions such as 'How much to do you earn?' are perfectly acceptable on a first date, unlike the West. So I was wondering if those types 'are you married' questions had a different connotation too.

Dr. Greg wrote:I also think it is unlikely that Miss B would have accepted two different invitations to have dinner with you outside of a group setting if she, too, were not interested in you as more than just a friend.

Prior to reading your article, I wasn't aware that this was such a big deal. I've been to dinner with plenty of non-Chinese without that thought in mind.

Dr. Greg wrote:If you are having trouble reading Miss B's intentions towards you, it is reasonable for you to initiate a discussion about how she feels: You can start by saying something very low-key about how you like her as more than just a friend and then ask how she feels.

In the past I would just initiate physical contact to gauge reaction, or ask in a playful way whether she is a good kisser etc as I can pass this off as a misunderstanding relatively easily if all goes wrong. However I was concerned that might be seen as aggressive in Chinese culture. What is your opinion?

I was hoping to avoid that sort of conversation, but if that's what it takes...

Dr. Greg wrote:I don't think she would consider that to be too forward, not after two dates in addition to all the other time you two have spent together.

That's what I thought too... but thought it would be prudent to get a the second opinion.

Thanks again, really appreciate the insight and any additional feedback.

Many will tell you that Shanghainese women are in a class all of their own. Smile.

While those eight chapters on dating, sex, and relationships are intended to orient Western men to Chinese women and dating etiquette, they will certainly not apply equally well to all Chinese women.

It is prudent to orient yourself to cultural differences in dating etiquette but your best resources will be sensitivity and communication.

Both of these girls appear to clearly like you. The best way for you to determine what is appropriate for them personally is to talk to them in a way that is not too forward and provides them with the opportunity to tell you how they feel.

Chinese girls, as a rule, will tend to communicate how they feel far more in body language (meta-communication) than through words. As for what they are personally ready for emotionally, no guide or textbook can tell you that: only they can.

Talk to them, respectfully, i.e., perhaps somewhat more indirectly than you would to a British girl--but don't be afraid to talk to them.

Dr. Greg wrote:Many will tell you that Shanghainese women are in a class all of their own. Smile.

So I hear! However, I also suspect that a large proportion of those studying in the UK will be from Shanghai.

Dr. Greg wrote:While those eight chapters on dating, sex, and relationships are intended to orient Western men to Chinese women and dating etiquette, they will certainly not apply equally well to all Chinese women.

It is prudent to orient yourself to cultural differences in dating etiquette but your best resources will be sensitivity and communication.

I agree, however local 'norms' provide a good starting point.

Dr. Greg wrote:Both of these girls appear to clearly like you. The best way for you to determine what is appropriate for them personally is to talk to them in a way that is not too forward and provides them with the opportunity to tell you how they feel.

So 'subtlety' seems to be the key point.

Dr. Greg wrote:Chinese girls, as a rule, will tend to communicate how they feel far more in body language (meta-communication) than through words.

I've found that cross-cultural body language is quite an interesting topic. I've studied NLP and found some need for adjustment when reading other cultures (for example, two of my female Italian friends are often mis-read by men to be more 'friendly' than intended. I suspect this is due to their smaller 'personal space' and their periodic need to touch the person they are speaking with.

Dr. Greg wrote:As for what they are personally ready for emotionally, no guide or textbook can tell you that: only they can.

I absolutely agree. This is universal regardless of culture!

Dr. Greg wrote:Talk to them, respectfully, i.e., perhaps somewhat more indirectly than you would to a British girl--but don't be afraid to talk to them.

I think some quiet conversations are in order. Thanks for all your input.