Dating, Sex, & Relationships

In your article about Dating Etiquette and Sex, you make it very clear that the Chinese really don't do casual sex and prefer to hold off until marriage. My brief experience with my last girlfriend, who was Chinese, said similar things. I'm okay with this and accept it.

I wondering though, if I may use a bit of slang, how do Chinese women feel about going to First, Second, or Third base (see baseball metaphors for sex)?

I can respect a person's wishes to wait until marriage for sex, but I would like to at least get a scene of how far I can go. Would it even be acceptable to even talk about such things with a Chinese woman?

Any advice you can give would be very helpful.

I think the central issue here has to do with degree of commitment. The vast majority of Chinese women born and raised in second- and third-tier cities associate sex with marriage or, at the very least, the sincere promise of an imminent marriage. Some have been known to even rush the act as a binding dealmaker, i.e., "you drank the milk, now you have to buy the cow."

This is a particularly sensitive issue but if you are looking for casual sex that may or may not lead to something more permanent, then date non-virgins only, preferably girls that have had Western boyfriends before. Obviously, this is not something you can advertise for in advance but it will become clear enough over the course of one or two dates, particularly if you bring up the subject of past boyfriends. Just keep in mind that Chinese girls use the word "boyfriend" to mean any boy they had mutually fond feelings for, with or without sexual intimacy.

You don't need to (nor should you) verbally broach the subject of what degree of physical intimacy is acceptable to the girl: Her behavior, specifically body language, will tell you. While girls outside of China's international cities are not socially sophisticated, they are certainly not necessarily prudish either. The same "rules" for a first kiss back home would apply here. If a Chinese girl smiles a lot at you, sits close to you, or touches you anywhere (arm, hand) when alone, it is safe for you to assume that she likes you well enough for you to kiss her.

You don't need to over-think this. Just be honest at all times about how and what you are feeling and let nature take its course. If the girl is only interested in sex or sexual activity in the context of marriage, she will tell you so in no uncertain terms. On the other hand, if she seems to be initiating sexual activity very early on in the relationship, you would be wise to slow things down and first learn what this behavior means to her. Finally, if the girl mentions anything about taking you home to meet her family, she already views you as her future husband.

If you are an ethical and honest person, your biggest problem will not be needing to guess how far or fast you can go with a Chinese girl, but, rather, how to adjust your thinking (perception) and slow down the pace (in a way that doesn't cause the girl to lose face) in the context of a culture that has established a very fast and linear track to the altar.

Thank you very much for your well though-out, well written answer (and quick) response. I very much appreciate it.

I have a follow-up question for clarification, if I may. You mentioned that Chinese women from second- and third-tier cities often associate sex with marriage. Would you say the women from first-tier cities, like Beijing and Shanghai, are less inclined to associate sex with marriage?

I feel that I should also mention why I ask these questions. In the article about the respect teachers get, there's a story about a girl that wants to commit suicide because she lost her virginity. That story very much sticks out in my mind. The last thing I want to do is hurt anybody. I couldn't live with myself I did that. But at the same time, I'm afraid of getting forced into a marriage with someone that I'm sexually incompatible with. I've heard stories of US couples that decide to “take it slow,” and wait to have sex, only to find out after they do that the sex is bad and break up. Holding off on casual sex is one thing, but being stuck in a loveless, sexless marriage is another.

But perhaps I am over-thinking this. I do that a lot. Please forgive me and my irrational fears if they are getting away from the intended purpose of this great and informative web site. I appreciate the help.

Aaron,

The girl referenced in that vignette you cited above was a 20-year old virgin from the countryside who had been deliberately (and maliciously) lied to by a classmate. The best way to avoid this situation is simply by being entirely honest.

The subject of casual dating is discussed at great length in the thread Casual Dating and Sex in China.

The point you are raising, however, is actually different from the one regarding casual sex: namely, how do you know whether you are sexually compatible with the person you are about to marry if you have never had sex before marriage? Of course, it's a question that doesn't necessarily apply to Chinese girls only.

It seems to me that "sexual compatibility" comprises a combination of several factors in which physical "goodness of fit" only plays one small part. Sexual compatibility involves many other things such as spiritual compatibility, physical chemistry (for example, whether the girl's natural scent attracts you), and mental compatibility (meaning whether you two are on the same "wavelength").

With the exception of "mechanical compatibility" (how well the "parts" fit together, which really shouldn't be a problem barring a major difference in height), all other aspects of sexual compatibility, as I have defined it, would be very clearly known to you in the context of an intimate relationship that had never been sexually consummated.

As for the mechanics of sex itself, there are a lot of couples out there in the world who live happily together with a significant discrepancy in height and weight. I imagine they have found a least one position that works for them.

Dr. Greg, thank you for your advice. I very much appreciate talking to you about this.

My personal experience in Shenzhen (which is a first-tier city) is that there are many young Westernized Chinese girls in their 20's who are not particularly looking for marriage and have dated Western men on what we would define as a casual basis, and will even initiate sex without it being intended as having strings attached.

It seems to me like this is prevalent in women aged under 25 and once they have reached their mid- to late-20s, they will then start to look for a more serious relationship that will lead to marriage and children. This is a fairly similar pattern to what is prevalent in Western countries as in the first-tier cities people are starting to marry later simply due to economic considerations.

What you write is generally true for girls in first-tier cities and it's discussed in the aforementioned thread on Casual Sex and Dating in China.

In the absence of the security of marriage or the immediate agenda of seeking a better future, it is also true that these girls will generally employ the same criteria in selecting boyfriends as do their Western counterparts. That is, Western men who are not competitive for pretty, 20-something-year old girls (who are just looking for a good time) back home would not be so in Shenzhen.