Dating, Sex, & Relationships

Dear Dr. Greg:

I'm from Brazil, so sorry about my bad English .

Well, let me start.

I met this Chinese girl on MySpace and we started talking a lot. At first, she really liked me and we became good friends. She studied and lived at a boarding school, so we used to talk once a month because she only could go home once per month. During her stay at school she always said to me "I miss you so much. God knows how much I wanted to get out of here so I could talk to you." My first question goes here.

If we were just friends, why did she say that she missed me? Because I read through your website, everything on it, and in one of your articles you said that she only would say that if we had something more serious.

Continuing...

After one year of talking and sending mails to each other, she finally graduated from the high school. Now she is 19. She did well on the college entrance exam and went to HUNAU (editor's note: Hunan University perhaps), one of the best universities in China she said. When she had the time, we would talk a lot, I mean a lot. First time she returned home and finished school, I opened a QQ account. She wanted to talk using a microphone and we talked for about 10 hours. After almost one year of sending mail, I could hear her voice, and just before she logged off, I declared my love for her.

She was astonished, but asked for time to think about it. She asked me to wait for her decision but said that she was happy that I told her this and that when she was in school, she missed me all the time. Well, then we spent a lot of time talking during her vacation. Two times she went to the Internet cafe at midnight because she didn't have Internet at home. She stayed at the cafe until 5am. I finally asked her to go home because I could notice that she was sleepy.

It has been three months since I declared my love for her and she is still asking me for time. Why? She says that we are not "normal" friends by the fact the we have talked every single day and because we like each other... but that she cannot be my girlfriend now. I don't understand this. She has never been able to tell me why despite the number of times I have asked her. She just says that she wants more and more time and adds "you won't give up me, will you?" And I say okay I will wait for you.

Time passed and university was about to begin. She went on vacation to Hong Kong and we were out of contact for three days until she returned to school. When I heard from her again she said "God knows how much I missed you, and that shows how much I need you." This is why I cannot understand why she says that cannot be my girlfriend.

I would like to put a question here: how do I know if she is a little nuts? Perhaps she just wants attention and to be the center of attention? I read your article about narcissistic girls, but don't think she fits the diagnostic criteria.

She gave up her vacation to take care of her sick grandmother for two weeks, going everyday to the hospital to help her. When that tragedy happened in Haiti, she sent money to the Red Cross. However, every time I talk to her she says "I went shopping" and every time I ask her what her plans are for tomorrow she says "I will go shopping." Man, I am confused about whether she is really selfish and just wants to spend the rest of life shopping or if she is really goodhearted.

Now that she has returned to the university, things have really changed or at least seem different than before. For example, she changed the password to her online photo album and didn't send me the password. In the past I had this code but she changed it. I have asked her for it thousands of times but each time she ignores the request.

We are talking less now because she goes home every week and we talk sometimes when I call her cellphone. The weirdest thing is that sometimes we go a whole week without talking and she doesn't answer the phone when I know she is free. Many, many times she goes online but doesn't talk to me but is online for a long time. However, the next time I log on I will always see a message that she left offline saying that really misses me badly.

But how? Why didn't we talk? She never explains why. She'll ask me to call her but doesn't answer the phone. Last week we didn't talk at all. She returned home and didn't talk to me explaining that she couldn't go home because had some meeting, but if she couldn't go home how was she online? The only place where she uses a computer now is at home.

The other question I have (in regard to the chapter on guanxi and mianzi) is how do I know if she is sincere? I am afraid that she just wants me to praise her with beautiful words (especially after I read the section on "Do you think I'm pretty"). I think she wants me to tell her how beautiful, intelligent and so on, she is but, boy, she is really beautiful. I have showed her photos to more than 30 guys and 100% said she is really beautiful.

We have discussed the possibility of getting married but she said that I first should build my career, get a good job and good salary and then get married to her. She said she will wait for me no matter how long it takes. I said I want to go to China and live with her forever but she just discourages me all the time. "China is hard to find job," "competition is very hard," "get a job in other country first, get good skills then come to China because companies here want people with great skills." Well she definitely doesn't want me to live in China now. If it were just up to me, I would be there forever, give up everything in Brazil to be with her. I have tentative plans to visit her in February, but have many questions in mind. I will first explain a little bit about her.

She is very rich, not just rich, but very rich. Her dad is a government official in Changsha city and her mother also. They live in a government compound and have five apartments in the city and invest in the stock market and rent out those apartments. She is used to shopping with her mother and spending about 6000 yuan per week. I mean, WTF?

She is talented, intelligent, goodhearted, loves to cook for her family and parents, likes to clean the house, is patient, easy going, knows when she is wrong, can ask for forgiveness, has good English skills, and a strong leadership spirit. In school she was the captain of the cheerleaders and the class president. At her university, she is a class monitor and also the captain of the cheerleaders again. That's what I like most like about her, this great leadership spirit. But I get confused many times over her behavior.

She had a quarrel with her mom and then left the house and went to stay at a friend's house. After three days, she returned home but didn't breathe a word about what happened although I did ask her.

This Sunday I found written in her profile "All the desire I had for you is gone. What I wanted to say to you earlier is that I don't feel anything for you anymore. I will now move on and command myself to not miss you anymore, although it is really hard for me. But I will act as if we had never met before. I don't want someone who doesn't want to be here with me."

Man, when I read this I was shocked and surprised. The first thing I did was call her but she didn't answer. What I thought was everything was now over. I lost one of the most amazing girls I ever met. I left her an offline message asking if she wrote that to me and she said "Are you kidding? You are so funny. I wrote that because people in my QQ don't know English and I simply wrote that to express my feelings."

I mean isn't she contradicting herself by explaining that this wasn't intended for me but was just an expression of her feelings? "It's because of Chinese Singles Day" and I was like well okay. "I didn't mean to hurt your feelings, I wrote that for nothing." I mean who the hell would wrote something like that for "nothing" for God sake? "Sorry if that made you upset," she said. "Miss you badly!" How? I call but she doesn't answer, so how much can she really miss me?

Well I am a 19 year-old guy not too ashamed to say that this is my first relationship. Also I have never had sex and, after discussing it with her, I learned that she wants to wait until after marriage. She said "my mom loves you," "my mom really likes you and is preparing for you to come," "my family really wants to know you," "my mom likes your type." Well, she had never mentioned her dad and what he thinks about us, just said he is very strict about boys. She invited me to stay at her house in February but after one month she just said well, soldiers of the compound said you can't stay here but I can show you around. She wants to introduce me to her whole family.

Well, I am hoping that you can offer some insight into this whole affair. Anything you write will be appreciated. I have many doubts about whether this trip will be worth the money and am afraid that after I get there she will knock me on my ass. . I would like to know if you think this is worth pursuing as well as any other thoughts you may have. Thanks for your time in reading this very long post.

My experience over the past two years with this forum is that by the time a poster gets to the point of asking me for feedback about a relationship, deep down inside, he already knows the answer—as I believe you do.

The two of you are only 19 years old. That alone would explain this girl’s apparent capriciousness. Is she just stringing you along in order to hold onto an admirer? Of course it’s possible. I really don't know for sure either way. I have no idea what is in her mind and heart, assuming she even does.

Do I think you should traipse halfway around the world with the intention of spending the rest of your life with her? Honestly, no. Do I think you probably will travel to China in February regardless of what I write here tonight? Yes I do. Will you very likely get hurt? I am guessing that you will get hurt, very much so.

Relationships are hard enough without adding language and cultural barriers into the mix. Even if she were entirely consistent in her communications with and reactions to you, the odds of this relationship working over the long haul are very much against you.

The advice she offered you about first building a career back home before moving to China is very sound. Expats in China who are making real money were hired internally from companies that they were already employed in back home. She is entirely correct about that. As a 19-year old Brazilian without a college degree, your employment options in China would be slim to none. I believe that if you pack up and move to China now with the intention of living here permanently, you will end up getting your heart broken in more ways than one.

I have to ask: Are there no girls in Brazil who interest you? Your life will be so much simpler on so many levels (ones you are not even aware of at this time) if you stay home and find a good local girl to love and care for, one who can love and care for you without the need for 6,000 yuan shopping sprees every week.

I doubt that this reply has been very helpful to you. I really cannot answer your concerns as a doctor because I don’t have enough information about you or her. What I can tell you is that if I had a son your age who approached me with this issue, I would do everything I could to talk him out of this relationship and any plans to pursue this in the future.

Stay home, find a good local girl, stay in school (or go back to school) and build a life for yourself that will be much more manageable, peaceful, and considerably more satisfying in the end.

Hi Dr. Greg,

Thanks for your reply, well I forgot to give you some insight into me.

I have a college degree. It might sound strange but I went to college when I was 17 and finished a three-year degree at age 19. My major is in computer networking and I'm working for a company related to what I studied.

My plans are not to go to China in February with the intention of staying there, but just to go for a visit with her and then come back. I'm planing to stay about 15 days and then come back. You are right when you said if I move to China now I'll get hurt, and I agree with that especially if she really refuses me.

My point is that I will give it a try, as she wants time to wait and see me in person to see how I am face-to-face, what I do when I'm with her, if my words are real, etc. That's why I think she has repeatedly said that she wants time.

Yeah, I agree that relationships are hard enough without any added complications. Isn't it odd that although she is 19, her mind seems to be about 14?

My dad has supported the idea of going there just to visit her, giving it a try and, if it doesn't work, I will come back home anyway right? So my family is supporting me just to visit, but based on what you said I'll think very carefully about that.

But it will be costly and I'm wondering if it will be worth it to go and come back. If I decide to go, when I get there I will put everything on the table and see if we should move on or keep our relationship.

I thought your reply was helpful. It made me face this relationship from another perspective.

Everything that I said about her is what she told me. When I call her she says that she really misses me, and based on her voice I think she is being honest, but there are many odd things as I wrote before.

I don't plan to live in Brazil and find a girl here because I do prefer Asian girls. That's something that comes from within. I don't like the way girls act here, like they prefer sex before marriage, seek guys with high power, and the Brazilian beauty does not attract me. That's why I'm trying to find an Asian girlfriend.

I tried building a relationship with a Japanese girl but she said we could only try if I was in Japan. Then I moved on to this Chinese girl and in the beginning it was good but has since turned out to be a little strange. If I don't send her any messages or call her during the week she turns back to me very needy like with different words and saying please call me, and on the phone she becomes very happy to talk to me, saying that she is having a great time by being with me... things like that.

The only thing that she wants is a carefree life with someone who really loves her. I said that I'm not rich and don't have too much financially to offer her even though she has said that having a 2-bedroom house, a normal car with a good salaried job (about 1500 dollars) is enough for her.

The reason that I posted here is to try and get a sense if you thought this was worth a try. You wrote you think the odds are great that I will get hurt, very much. Did you get to this conclusion based on her reactions and the things that she does?

Isn't it meaningful that she has invited me to meet her parents and is always saying that she misses me? Could she be faking the longing for me?

If this relationship doesn't work, I will try another Chinese or Japanese girl, because this is the kind of beauty that I admire and want to be married to.

My plans are to go to live in Japan or China for the rest of my life but not now because of my low experience and job opportunities.

Thanks for your fast reply.

If it were humanly possible for you to visit her and her family for a couple of weeks in February without any specific expectations, only then would it be just a harmless visit. To the contrary, you have very strong expectations and hopes for what will transpire and if things don't work out precisely the way you want them to, I think you will be crushed.

You seem to have your heart set on this girl but I can't begin to imagine how the two of you will be able to negotiate a long-distance relationship over the next few years while you work on establishing yourself in Brazil.

I don't have a clear sense of this girl, aside from the fact that you describe her as flighty. She has grown up in an affluent home and doesn't think twice about spending large sums of money. Do you really think she is going to be content being married to a man who is earning 10,000 yuan ($1500) per month (despite her current assurances to the contrary)? That seems very unlikely to me.

It is very meaningful that she has invited you to meet her family. However, this girl is used to being treated like a princess, getting her way all the time (especially as an only child), and, consequently, is very spoiled.

I think, even under the best of circumstances, if you pursue this relationship, it is going to be fraught with numerous logistical, cross-cultural, and economic difficulties.

Nevertheless, you are clearly determined to marry an Asian girl and any long-distance relationship you embark on at this point in your life is going to be fraught with similar difficulties.

If you do decide to visit her next February, please do post a follow-up and let me know how it went.

Best of luck to you.

Hi Dr.

Thanks for continuously answering me in short time, I appreciate your help.

After what you said about, I'm thinking very carefully if it will really be worth it to go there and then come back in two weeks time. When I get there I will put everything on the table, what I think she is, the things that she does that I don't like, if she will want to marry me even if I don't earn millions of yuan every month.

I agree with you that she is full of contradictions. She said once that having a good salary with a good house with someone who loves her would be enough for her. She expects the man to be the backbone of the family and worried if I would be willing to assume and take on this responsibility. By the way, she spends 60,000 not 6,000 yuan when she goes out shopping with her mom, but that's not the point. The fact is that she is a big spender and if she won't change and expects a husband who can give this to her, I will not go further.

She is playing hard to be hard to get, so that's what I will do, thinking carefully about what's going on and that things for me seem not so good. I will stop calling, won't log into QQ, and will see how she reacts after two weeks without any news from me. I will see how she will react by me doing that, if she loves me or likes me I will know, if she just doesn't care that I waited so long to contact her and hasn't contacted me, then I will know for sure that I'm just a toy that she uses for praise.

Last night I was thinking that she has me in her hands. Why? She goes a long time without talking, doesn't talk to me, doesn't say anything, then, out of the blue, she just says some words like "I badly miss you, I do miss you, I'm happy talking to you," and then it's done until next time. She has me in the palm of her hands saying good things to her and praising her despite the fact that she ignores me and wouldn't give me her new password etc. I'll play hard to get now.

Well, answering your question about how I will make it with her regardless of our distance or with any other Asian girl, I'll tell you what. My cousin is in a relationship with a Portuguese guy (from Portugal). She is Brazilian, and he comes to here, to Brazil, to spend time with her and then returns to Portugal. They have been doing this for about 5 years. It's a big deal I think.

I know we're from different cultures and are younger than my cousin and her boyfriend, but I have no way of knowing what will happen until I try. Maybe I will live here and be able to visit her often, and keep our relationship going through the Internet like my cousin does. When I put this to her once 5 months ago when things were going better than now, better I mean, when she used to show to me that she really likes me, I could notice in her voice that she wasn't faking by saying that she missed me and was happy talking to me. But things have changed.

When I put this to her she said "That's okay, I will wait 10 years for you." I go there and come back and in the meantime I will grow up mentally, economically and develop work experience in my area. After some years of doing this (if everything goes alright, and when I'm there I see that she loves me and her feelings for me are alike), we will get married and then I will move to live in China. That's what we discussed and she agreed, but that was 5 months ago when our relationship was smooth. It seems turbulent now.

Well, I thought about contributing to Middle Kingdom Life and so, if I go, can I write my story in Personal Stories? I was thinking about after I get back to Brazil in August, I will write everything that happened since the beginning of my relationship. I want to help people who maybe can relate to my relationship and maybe they can learn something from my experience. What do you think?

Just to finish, indeed I don't want to spend the rest of my life in Brazil. I haven't moved to Japan or China yet because, like you said, chances for me to get job are slim to none right? I do plan to spend the rest of my life in Japan or China but, before that, I must learn the language and get experience. That's what I'm doing: learning Japanese and Mandarin, and getting life experience and good job skills to get a good job, house, etc. It's something that I have been thinking about for the past two years.

Thanks for your insight, it was helpful and I hope it might help someone else.

Let me just suggest to you, in closing, that the best way to address game-playing and ambiguity is not by playing games and being ambiguous yourself. If you are this confused about the most basic of things at this stage in the relationship, that means it was not meant to be.

Your tentative plan is to spend what little money you have saved to travel halfway around the world to meet a terribly spoiled, rich Chinese girl and tell her exactly how you feel including what you don’t like about her. You might very well be the first person in her life to take such an approach with her. I wouldn’t expect that to go very well.

There are millions upon millions of young woman in China who would like to marry a foreigner, ones who will be considerably clearer about and consistent in their feelings. You don’t need this.

If you are right that she is just manipulating you in order to hold onto a great admirer, then, of course, she will reach out to you if you don’t contact her within a two-week period and she will most definitely tell you, again, how she much she missed you. This is not a valid way to test her sincerity. Quite frankly, you already have all the information you need with which to conclude that this girl--and this is the best case scenario--will be very high maintenance (in more ways than one) and a perpetual challenge.

Whether you go to China or not, you are most welcome to write up your personal story for our site. It's very nice of you to offer.

Best of luck to you. Let us know what you decide and what happens.

Hi Dr. Greg,

Here is the follow-up of what has been happening. I think it is good to share this.

Well, instead of waiting two more weeks, I decided to say everything that was on my mind, everything that I had in my heart, all my doubts, and then sent it in this e-mail:


"Hi,

Well, I'd like to say something to you, something that is deep inside me and has make me feel not so eager lately.

I haven't gone online for several days because I was introspectively thinking about our relationship. What I'd like to say is that I'm too confused about our relationship, and I shouldn't be, right? There are so many doubts in my mind about me and you. I know that you asked for time but do I have any chance to become your boyfriend?

We have been in this relationship for awhile, right? I already did everything that I could to conquer your heart and I will travel halfway around the world just to meet you. If after everything that I have done, including going to meet, still hasn't caught your heart and you are still not sure about me and you, I don't think we should continue, right?

I can't just be your friend because my feelings for you are stronger than that. I'm not breaking up with you. PLEASE don't misunderstand me, I DO love you but I don't want to go to China just to meet a friend who still doesn't even want to be my girlfriend. I want to meet a girlfriend who will become my wife one day, that's my plan.

If I could, I would give up everything here to go to live in China just to be closer to you, I already said that, remember? Give up all my friends, family and everything here to go live in China to be with you. If this is not enough to show how much I love you, or to catch your heart, I really have no idea what more I could do.

You said "I don't know whether what we share is love because we can't touch each other" but I say now if, deep inside of you, you have strong feelings and desire, that's called love. You don't need to touch if deep inside you feel those good feelings, excitement, passion, happiness, all these I feel, that's why I say to you that I love you. If what I feel for you is not love, I really don't know what love is, i really have no clue.

I decided to write all of this because I'm too confused about us. I really hope you can understand my point of view. Don't misunderstand me, my heart still has a flame burning for you. I'm not giving up on you, but I'm not sure if I should continue further if I still must do something else to catch you and your heart.
Bye"

And then that's was her answer:

OMG dear. I'm sorry to saw all you said I think there must have something misunderstand with us, because of the distance, right? I'm sorry, everyday you don't know how I want to use PC to talk with you! but I couldn't I hate to deal with the endless work from my school when other students are enjoy themselves in the bars or shopping mall, I have to stay at the meeting hall and stand the long speech, and then I have to write a lot of essay for that and when I try to spare time to use PC I find that you weren't in I realised there must have something wrong, and I was wondering you don't want talking with me anymore or your love for me had gone.

Well, I'm really sorry if I made you so upset, I really didn't mean to upset you, you know? You have been a important part of my life, but I don't know whether we could overcome some problem between us, I'm so glad that you said you want be with me leave all the trouble, so, would you like come to China and we could see each other walking along in the street, I will spend all my time with you, I even plan for where I should take you to have fun, my family, my mom ,you are so appeals to her. Well, maybe you need a promise, right? You know, although there are a lot of boys says they love me but I refused all of them, right? Do u think it a chances for you?

Well, if you want give up all of this, I really have no idea what I should say I respect all the decision you'll make.

I miss you, it's a word inwardly.

So, right now, I really don't know how I should answer and what to do. I don't know if I should trust in those words, if it's all a lie or it's all true. I'm at a dead end.

Just put all this here to give a follow-up of what's going on.

For the sake of clarity and in the interest of simplification, let’s temporarily remove all issues regarding cross-cultural and language barriers and underlying motivations, intentions, and possible pathologies. What we have here is the rather serious logistical problem inherent in all online long-distance relationships. In such cases, the man typically shoulders all the risk and expense.

Hypothetically speaking, let’s say that she sends you an e-mail tomorrow morning advising that she has finally decided to accept you as her boyfriend. There is still absolutely no guarantee that once you two meet, everything is going to be fine. There are no guarantees in relationships and the riskiest of all are online long-distance romances.

In my younger days, I had a couple of experiences where I had hit it off fabulously with women I had met online. We spent weeks talking on the phone and all the “good vibes” were there. Then, I would finally decide to travel some distance (and by "some distance" I am talking about a two-hour car ride) to meet her in person and guess what? Nothing. As great as the rapport had been between us on the phone, in person, the dynamics were completely different. At that point, I decided against ever pursuing another long-distance relationship, especially one that had started over the Internet. It’s a very high-risk gamble.

The problem here is that you are determined to marry an Asian girl because you are enamored by their beauty. Personally and professionally, I think it is a very big mistake to limit yourself to women who only meet certain physical criteria: She must be blond, red-haired, Asian, Italian, tall, short, big-breasted, small-breasted, etc. This is not a particularly healthy or emotionally mature way to approach relationships. To suggest that you are willing to walk out on your entire life to live close to a girl you have never met—solely because you are extremely attracted to her—is, quite frankly, very disturbing to me. You are setting yourself up for heartbreak and there is no other way to put it.

No matter how many assurances you may receive from a girl you have met online, who is thousands of miles away, the odds of such a relationship working, especially when you are someone of very limited means, are very poor.

If you are determined to pursue online long-distance relationships, then you need to be willing to eliminate anyone you are receiving mixed messages from, no matter how beautiful you may think she is. What possible good is it to have a beautiful girlfriend if you have no idea whether you are coming or going most of the time?

SO... this is a follow-up of what happened next. I decided to reply on the same thread to update all the curious people out there

So after this post we spent some more time still talking and talking, but, as time passed by, I started to realize that I would not have the money to go visit her. She waited for me for about a year-and-a-half and I decided that was enough. I told her we should better stop because I won't be able to go to China anytime soon and that to keep the relationship like this for years and years wouldn't make any sense. I decided that she would be better with someone close to her, someone who can touch her, hang out, kiss her. We live in two separate worlds so far apart that this made me gave up on the idea.

After we quit that relationship we spent six months without sharing a word. Then one day, out of the blue, she sent me a message saying she wanted to go back to the way it was, but, I showed no sign of wanting all that back. We don't talk anymore, it's been over four months, and I think what will be best for her and for me is a relationship where people are close to each other, where they can hang out, share things, give things, and receive things back.

All that I have to say is thank you Dr. Greg. I was once mad at you, you know, hearing the truth hurts but now I see everything clearer.

I'm now more focused on personal relationships and have quit all Internet relationships. I'm hanging out with friends at church and getting to know more people. I've become interested in a particular girl there and we've become friends. I'm about to ask her if she wants something deeper than just a friendship. If this one doesn't want something more then, okay, I'll try other girl just as long as she is someone geographically close to me, who I can see everyday, touch, kiss, etc.

Thank you for the follow-up.

I think you made the right decision for yourself and I was glad to read about all the new friendships you are making. It is a lot easier to build real relationships with people when you can actually spend time with them in person.

All the best to you.