Ask Headmaster Ken

After asking questions in open & public forums where you get way too many personal & biased opinions and not a lot of actual information this site has been a life saver. Thanks so much for getting this site up & running. I have two questions for you.

Question 1: Which provinces in China are not currently requiring a degree? I've worked in Guangdong twice before (9 years ago & then 6 years ago) and found that I really like the province. Now I'm getting ready to move back there & am finding that there are no jobs open for me because I don't have a degree. I have 9 years teaching experience in Asia as well as being TESOL certified...but at the moment those things don't seem to count for much. It's hard to figure out in which places you are actually required by law to have a BA in order to be employed legally & which places have it listed as a requirement more as an added bonus for applicants...as most of the job posting put it in the requirements. Really want to stick to the south & ideally smaller coastal cities.

Question 2: I am Canadian but I currently live in Indonesia. My husband is Indonesian & so is my 17 month old daughter. My husband will not be seeking employment as he is a stay-at-home dad for the time-being. I have heard that it's a pretty basic procedure for your employer to add your dependents to your visas etc. Is this correct? What are employers general feelings about teachers that come with families? And would the fact that my dependents are not also Canadian be an issue at all (legally or otherwise).

I appreciate any help you could give me on these matters as we are in a bit of a rush to get packed up & move. Thanks

Tammy

Technically, every foreign expert teacher is required to have a bachelor's degree.

What you are seeking is employers who are willing to hire those with less than that. And many employers might be willing to do that, if necessary.

These days, there is a glut of job applicants, highly qualified applicants, especially so in "desirable" areas and cities.

Hence, employers, for the most part, don't have much reason to hire someone who doesn't meet the minimum qualifications. Also, local officials may refuse to allow them to do this--they are well aware of the job market situation.

Your best bet is to simply flood employers in the areas you want. You'll be looking for an employer who needs to fill an unexpected vacancy. Your most attractive asset will be a flexible availability date.

As to your second question, dependents--regardless of nationality--simply add a bit more burden vis-a-vis administrative tasks.

You'll also need to clarify your expectations regarding housing. Do you need larger quarters than the normal teacher? It would be good to address this once you are hired. Explain that you will, of course, be responsible for any extra visa and housing costs.

Most of all, be persistent.

Best wishes.

If I enter China on a tourist visa where can I get it changed into a working visa? I have heard that you used to be able to go to HK or Bangkok to get it done... but I've also heard a lot of people say that you MUST go back to the country of your nationality to apply for a working visa.

I am under a time crunch to arrive in China (tickets booked for departure, current apartment rented out, etc.) but have not lined up a job yet. So my plan is to go there and get an idea of the city and some of the different schools. When I find a proper employer that I am going to sign a contract with, will I absolutely HAVE TO fly back to Canada to apply for my working visa?

What are the rules for a tourist visa? If you get a 6-month dual entry visa can you spend six months straight in the country or do you have to leave at certain intervals? And if you have to leave how does that work... you can just exit for a day and return the next day or what?

Also a quick hypothetical question about working with a fake degree:) From everything I've heard your credentials are never ever checked & everyone says there is very little risk involved with that... but if you have to return to your home country to apply would all of your documents not be checked out thoroughly?

I'll answer this for you while we are waiting on Headmaster Ken.

I think you are proceeding with China EFL employment in the riskiest way possible: Fly to China on a tourist visa to look for work with a fake degree then figure out how to--hopefully--convert this tourist visa into a work visa and pray the entire time that no one questions this digital copy of the fake degree and asks you to present an accompanying transcript or the original diploma and transcript. That's a lot of "ifs," "hopes," and finger crossing.

Whether or not you can pick up a Z-visa in Hong Kong or a nearby Asian country depends entirely on the city, province, and school type. Virtually all universities will require that you return to Canada. Some private schools will have enough guanxi (pull) with the local police to convert this L-visa to a work visa, while others will tell you that you'll need to head off to Hong Kong.

We don't recommend this approach at all. At the end of the day, the chances are great that you will have to return home to apply for the Z-visa or continue to work in China illegally for the entire duration of your stay. Many schools will tell you that they can convert that tourist visa into a work visa and then will leave you hanging indefinitely. Have you read the various horror stories of such empty promises on these forums?

You don't need a fake degree to work at most private schools. While you will be able to successfully satisfy the hiring needs of most Chinese private school owners with a Photoshop'd diploma (primarily because they truly don't care), you won't be able to fool other foreigners who happen to have a real degree and know the difference in education when they see it (via subtle to major differences in self-schema, self-expression, vocabulary, critical thinking, style of persuasion, etc.). You'll have to be forever careful about whom you befriend because you'll be living and working there with a big secret.

To answer your question directly, the process for applying for a Z-visa is the same whether you do it from home initially or after a return flight: your papers will not be scrutinized more closely in China because you had to fly back to Canada a second time. A three-month dual- or multiple-entry visa means you can stay in China the entire length of time without ever leaving.

If all the stars and planets happen to be aligned in just the right way, you may be able to pull all this off without major difficulties, but this is not the safest way to proceed, certainly not with a husband and child in tow. Especially with nine years of Asian teaching experience and a TESOL certificate, again, there are plenty of private schools in China that will hire you without a college degree.
____________________

PS. I strongly encourage you to stay away from the anonymous China EFL forums for the distinct purpose of obtaining important information. Anonymous posters can and do write anything that tickles their fancy. Most of what you read is sheer nonsense and some of it is even deliberately misleading (from Western lackeys of Chinese school owners). Anonymous China forums are fine for virtual socializing and learning where to buy Western foods and that's about it. Be careful.

How proficient is your Chinese? If you are a native level language speaker who can detect fraud in a conversation with the school's management team, and you have the funds to scout all the locations in China you might want to teach, then your approach may work. I would consider this an option for those for whom money, language barrier and time are no object.

For those who have limited time and funds, I'd advise checking with current and former teachers to verify what the school says and obtaining a Z-visa PRIOR to entering China.

When you think about it, for what legal, logistical, or ethical reason would an employer--who is licensed to hire you legally--choose not to do so?

Don't fall for the old, "Time is urgent" gambit. When you arrive on a tourist visa, suddenly time slows to a crawl when it comes to answering your concerns, getting your visa, getting your pay, etc. It's an old ruse.

Just do it legally and your odds of a favorable outcome are increased.

Cheers.