Ask Headmaster Ken

First a little bit about me, I have a CELTA and experience, although quite a few years ago. I have a master's in engineering and business, and now I want to teach in China. I shan't give the whole story on that one. However I am qualified in quite a specialist subject (I won't say in case the companies read this), which when you put all my CV together makes me quite a good catch.

Ultimately I want a job with a Z-visa. I am not too bothered about teaching business or my other subject.

This week I have had 2 interviews, the first with a university, but only for a 10-week course and then "see if we like you" for the next semester. The money is 8k with all the normal benefits, but obviously I have to buy the one way ticket, which to get there as soon as they want me is more than a month's salary. They also want me to come in on an F-visa. Hence why I am here on this site.

The other option is for a private company, to come in on a tourist visa for a 6 to 10 week contract, everything paid for and almost a 40k salary for the time I am there and teach my specialty.

Both have bits of dodgy in them. My biggest question is, if I come and work under the table on the tourist visa, can I then get a job with another school and get a Z-visa in China.

A point of view would help tremendously, although I think I know the answer which is No to both.

It is possible to convert tourist visas to a working visa under certain circumstances. The problem is that for every outfit than can actually do this, there are a hundred who cannot and yet advertise they can.

So, I suppose the real question is, "Do you feel lucky?"

For short term engagements, this is especially dangerous. All during your tourist visa time you will be told your visa is in the process. On the day before your visa expires, you will be given an excuse why you cannot get a visa. And, of course, your pay will be short or nonexistent. Thus, you just paid to fly to China to work for free on a tourist visa. It happens.

We recommend you come on a proper working visa. There are paid shills on many forums who claim to be working on a tourist visa, or know someone who is making huge amounts of money doing this. Yet, when someone on these forums announces they have followed this advice and, now being fined and deported, asks for help, nobody who encouraged them to work illegally will even acknowledge their existence.

Cheers

I'm due to fly out to China to work early next year. I have been asked by my employer-to-be, to get an L- (tourist) visa and then--when I'm there--they will pay for me to sort out a Z- (working) visa.

They say this is to reduce the difficulty in getting the visa sorted. My concern is that my future boss has said to tell them I am visiting the employer as a friend for 3 months when I am actually going to work out there for a year.

I am going to get a working visa when I get out there but a tourist visa to travel to China. To be honest, I don't understand why he wants to do it this way: He said getting a working visa instead of a tourist visa before going out there is more hassle than its worth.

Is it legit to do it this way, can anyone think of why he might be asking this and does anyone have any advice?

Email as written below:
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The easiest way to complete the visa process is to apply for a tourist visa in the UK. Once you arrive we can begin the working visa (Z visa) process. Generally the process will take 4-6 weeks to complete. We will pay all the costs of the Z visa process with the exception of the health insurance (the average cost per year is about 300 - 400 RMB). If you would like more details on this process please let me know.

For the tourist visa it is best to apply for a 2-3 month single entry visa. Under duration of stay you can write 3 months.

Under purpose of visit, write that you are visiting a friend. If you put down that you are going to work, it will make things more complicated than they need to be.

As for contact. You can use me.
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He seemed nice and trustworthy on the phone but I am new to this and want to make sure I'm doing everything right.

Many thanks for your time!

I will answer this before Headmaster Ken does as I know his advice will not be any different than mine.

Please read our Guide chapter titled the Z-visa Debate. Based on former questionnaire data, one out of six respondents (16%) who entered China on an L-visa failed to have their tourist visas converted to Z-visas during their entire stay in China. As Mr. Hayes asked in an earlier post, "How lucky do you feel?"

Your prospective employer may be asking you to do this because 1) his school is not licensed to hire foreign teachers or 2) he wants to see you in person before he goes through the added expense of processing your Z-visa paperwork. You may travel all the way to China at your own expense for what is just a glorified job interview. The Z-visa obligates this employer to actually give you a job the moment you land in China: the tourist visa obligates him to do nothing and puts you at risk for fines, detainment, and deportation.

From the teacher's perspective, after you receive your letter of invitation and work certificate, there is no more effort involved in applying for the Z-visa than a tourist visa.

Our best advice is to INSIST that he process your paperwork for the Z-visa. If he refuses or continues to make excuses, run--don't walk--away from this offer.

Do NOT travel to China to earn income on a tourist visa UNLESS you know and trust the integrity and credibility of the source making the promise to convert, in no less the manner you would know and trust a close friend or family member. Otherwise, as we see it, it is just too much of a personal risk for the prospective foreign teacher.

As a headmaster, I cannot fathom why any licensed school would have a legal, logistical or ethical reason to not provide a new employee with a proper Z visa prior to arrival.

Until I hear of a valid reason, my advice remains the same - don't risk it.

Hello, so far this site has been very helpful in giving a lot of information about teaching and living in China so first I'd like to say thank you.

Secondly, I'd like to ask for more information about converting my visa. Currently, I have a student visa and have been studying Chinese in Dalian for three semesters now. I've found a job in the same university I study in and need to get a work visa. I've read online and was told by my school that I need to either go back home or to Hong Kong to apply for a work visa. Also, I've heard that due to recent changes in visa regulations, I need to have at least two years working experience after graduating with a bachelor's degree. I graduated last year in May, so I've only been out of school for about a year and a half and since I've been studying in China, have no formal work experience. I do have more than two years work experience in the States but it's all from before I graduated.

I've read on here that the two years experience rule isn't so strict and varies from place to place. The thing is, I'm worried that if I have to go to Hong Kong to convert my visa I'll get there and then be refused a work visa because of my lack of experience.

By the way, my job will start on February 27th of next year so time is just a little tight. What do you recommend I do?

Thank you very much for your time and information.

Not to worry. You won't get refused in Hong Kong. That's because you have to be approved before you can get the documents to go to Hong Kong.

Many places will accept you for employment without the full two years post graduation experience.

What you need to do is:

1. Get hired by an employer.

2. Your employer will process your work visa application.

3. After you are approved, you take your documents to HK for final processing.


Cheers.

Thank you so much for the quick and useful reply Ken. I just have one more question about the visa.

After I posted, someone told me that the government recently started to require foreigners to have two years work experience to apply for a work visa and that it didn't matter what the employer said. Do you know anything about that?

Thanks again!

From your perspective, it doesn't matter. You will not get the documents in your hand to obtain a visa until AFTER the government is satisfied you are qualified.

In some places, that means two years post degree relevant work, in others, a recent high school graduate. In either case, only after the local officials have determined you are qualified to hire will you be issued the documents by the local officials. If they think you are not qualified, you'll never see the documents.

Great, thank you so much for the information. You've helped me a lot!